Forum:Videos: The Return
Evening folks! Right now Wikia (Fandom) is in the process of modernizing for the current age, and while that is going on I want to reopen the discussion of using videos on the wiki. While adding videos might seem to create a lot more work, it really does not and I think it will benefit the community in the long run. Below I will compile a list of benefits of adding videos to the wiki. *First off, we would only be allowing official content from Funimation and use the videos found in Fandom's video library http://video.wikia.com/wiki/Video_Wiki (Wikia has an agreement with Crunchroll so we get all this for free) We would only use full episodes and anime openings in the article pages and maybe sometimes blogs. Having full episodes on the wiki will give fans another incentive to visit the wiki and may result in new editors. Also, we would be cutting down on the number of links to sketchy/virus anime sites in Discussions/Discord *Wiki videos will be used to reduce the number of ads on the site and improve the performance of the wiki. Keep in mind folks, not everyone uses an ad blocker and having less ads and more videos with actual content related to the wiki is much better. *Staff has offered to create exclusive content for the wiki in the future, so we have more to show to site visitors and potentially draw traffic. Some more information here http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Brandon_Rhea/Wiki_Video_Types_and_How_You_Can_Create_Them *We have a lot of stubs on episode pages. Having the videos right there on the article page will encourage users to actually destub those articles since they don't have to be burdened with seeking out the episode as well when trying to write the summary. It would be right there on the page. I know there might be a concern that new users might upload random videos or videos that are not official content. We can probably control and put restrictions on who can upload what and just like images, they can easily be deleted if need be. Videos may be region locked and load times might increase (although since chapter stubs are relatively empty to begin with, that shouldn't be too much of a problem for now) If you have any suggestions or solutions to address the above paragraph or if you have any other concerns, then by all means go for it 17:50, May 3, 2017 (UTC) Discussion I have a question about this line: Wikia has an agreement with Crunchroll so we get all this for free) We would only use full episodes and anime openings in the article pages and maybe sometimes blogs. So, is Crunchyroll the only site we should use to download and upload videos? I believe you have to pay to view all the contents here. Also, won't uploading a 23-24 minute video take too long? Plus considering that One Piece has over 750+ episodes and 5+ movies.Which leads to another question, are we also going to upload OP movies? Also, are the vids going to be subbed only or will there be a dubbed version of it? Because I know some people like watching dubbed anime more than subbed. Are we going to delete the "Long Summary" whatchama-call-it so that viewers would not be spoiled? So far, that's all the questions I could think of... 19:05, May 3, 2017 (UTC) I 100% agree that we should add episodes, especially if Fandom now has a Crunchyroll partnership. This would be fantastic for our episode stub problem (and you all know that stubs are my biggest concern). As for your concerns Upcear, because the videos are already on Video Wiki, I don't think we'll have to reupload them. Also, they will all be free because of the Crunchyroll partnership. I would strongly advise against eliminating the Long Summary section, and we don't believe in spoilers on this wiki (like most other wikis). If people come here, they are personally liable to be spoiled. As for subbed vs. dubbed, that just depends on what Crunchyroll has to offer. I do see potential problems that we will need to solve before we make a decision to add video. Namely, can we lock video uploads to be admin, mod, and rollback only? We need to prevent any old Joe or Jane from putting their favorite fan theory video on here, and I don't want to leave the risk open for vandal porn uploads. Otherwise, I think this is a good idea and a positive point of growth for the wiki. 19:32, May 3, 2017 (UTC) Ah I see. Well then, if that's the case then I'm all for it. Just a suggestion but I noticed that OP has a "Featured Article" each week, and I was hoping we'll also have like a featured episode or something like that on the main page to let people know that we do have those episodes here. If this is a go and after we do finish uploading all the videos. 19:44, May 3, 2017 (UTC) Just to be clear, people won't upload any video. The video are on w:c:video and we simply embed here the ones we choose. A file page will be created here too, but the video won't be here. :Here is an example http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:JustSomeDude.../Episode_674_With_Video 20:26, May 3, 2017 (UTC) Not again. We should not bloat articles with videos and full episodes do not belong in an encyclopedia. They're all region-locked anyway. 20:59, May 3, 2017 (UTC) Link or not, the animation, the music, pretty much everything is a violation and they shouldn't be on youtube to began with. Unless its an official upload by the dubber or the japanese animators, there is no call to add these to the wikia what so ever. And even then, its not a certainty, unofficial youtube uploads get pulled randomly without wrning... Thats is not to say the official can do the same either. Also... Speaking from long term experience videos are constantly being pulled up ever X aount of length of time. And it will keep doing so until the people who want videos on the wikia get their way I feel. There are times when a wikia an get away with videos and there are times there are not. I can see videos like demos for the video games, dubs by an official company going on here, but beyond that... You are just going to open the gate for editing troubles you don't want. Every wikia i've seen this same situation has the same problem and the videos are constantly having to be relinked. While I advise against it, there is only one reason why; quite frankly... There really are better things you can do with your editing time and the images are enough already to support things so "why bother?" anyway. And this is me talking with experience under my belt since 2002 videos add almost nothing to a page and often become "for the sake of it". At the same time, it can be a little hypocritical as the wikias may restrict image use and then link to a video anyway. To me... Its the fact this comes up time and time again that makes me go against it. It just feels too much like "vote until I get things MY way", which can happen too often on a wikia. On the one hand, you my need a updated poll every so often to rethink a old concept or idea... On the other... It can be just one or two editors not taking "no" for an answer. They often get their own way in the end because everyone either gives up or the crowd is different and have no history of whats gone down in the past. But hey... I'm just one of the old founders here... Aside from putting out reminders that nothing has really changed much since 2003... I don't think there is much more to add here. video linking of any form can be a minefield, and its problematic enough at the Vocaloid wikia which I'm a regular at. So to me, videos ultimately end up being more trouble then their worth even when they can go on a wikia. *le sigh* One-Winged Hawk (talk) 21:04, May 3, 2017 (UTC) :As Levi pointed out we won't be uploading anything after all, we're just embedding links that already exist thanks to Wikia's library. All the videos on Wikia's library is official/legal thanks to a partnership with Crunchyroll. So there is no uploading random videos or getting content from Youtube 21:10, May 3, 2017 (UTC) ::Aware they are just embedded. It changes nothing, I just wrote "linked" instead. it changes nothing I've said in my response. Partnership or not, videos aren't as useful as people think unless they are instructional/demostrations. And an you still would have the same situation of explaining away justification of an entire episode when images are resticted. One-Winged Hawk (talk) 21:57, May 3, 2017 (UTC) According to the rules issues settled with a poll can't be rediscussed normally unless a substantial change takes place. Well offering exclusive content and reducing obtrusive ads is a big enough change, therefore I support as well for adding videos. No harm in it Godess of Time Dimaria (talk) 21:26, May 3, 2017 (UTC) I support adding the official episode videos. I really like Levi's old idea of making them collapsible, to avoid the relevancy issue caused by regional locking. You could also have a identifying class on the page to let people with a mislike of the videos hide them. I'm fairly certain opting for the new custom video thing will mean that your wiki will have locally made videos above the articles. I would possibly consent to that when we get to interact with it more elsewhere, but would the wiki do so? -SPD ☎ ' 21:42, May 3, 2017 (UTC) I don't thing this place ought to be filled with videos, maybe a link directory to official websites could do great enough. But, quoting Kage, " They're all region-locked anyway." Pau D. Seven (talk) 22:47, May 3, 2017 (UTC) :An important point about the region locking, the videos can be viewed in foreign countries if you use the Hola Browser, right here: http://hola.org/. It fixes region specificity. Also, we ''are an English wiki. I know that we have a lot of foreign users, but it still makes sense with our primary audience. 23:34, May 3, 2017 (UTC) I still don't get the issue with official videos, they '''are the content we are talking about. The only reason why a normal enciclopedia would not include that is copyright violation, but we have the luxury of being allowed to legitimately post them. People come here to know about One Piece, and the best way to know about it it's the source material. The region lock is irrelevant, this is the English wiki. Saying the region lock is an issue is the same as saying the fact we use English is a problem for international viewers, plus there are ways to bypass the region lock. Visually, they look like normal thumbnails, so if an image is fine what kind of issue would a video bring in exactly? We are not talking about annoying popups or autoplay videos. Let's not even call them videos, let's call them files. We are talking here about adding like a single file at best per episode page. Adding tons of pirated pictures is not a problem, but adding a single, legitimate, video is? Why? Just think that you will actually support the franchise that way. "The region lock is irrelevant, this is the English wiki". But they're not even available in the UK... English is a global lingua franca and the official language of many countries. So claiming this the same thing as using English is completely wrong. 00:12, May 4, 2017 (UTC) :You're right, I apologize. My language was not appropriate. I would still recommend the Hola Browser, which would allow anyone to watch the videos. 01:45, May 4, 2017 (UTC) But the worst case scenario is that the video is locked and so what? It will simply be a thunbnail on the page. What's the big deal? Yes, it's true that my comparison with English is not exactly true, but my point is that adding videos that at least US viewers can see is perfectly in line with the target audience of this wiki. If we were talking about adding the Brazilian version it would have been out of place for obvious reasons, but we are basically saying that because Brazilian viewers cannot see them, then we should not add it. Why? This won't change in any way the international service this wiki has and for people who cannot see the videos it won't change anything because they still can access everything else. It's not like we are restricting the wiki to US users after all. If we are that worried about international users, then why do we keep VIZ stuff? Non-EN people don't care about that. I should also remind you that, as you can probably tell, I'm not from USA, so I fall in that "international audience" who will see the video region locked but I still support them. I appreciate your concerns about non-EN users, but to be honest I rather prefer people of my language to visit their localized wiki then coming here. If people won't see a point in contributing on the wiki in their language then it will actually hurt the growth of other languages. I also should pointing out that ads are not region locked or, rather, everybody sees the same number of ads (since ads are tailored for the viewers). Therefore even if I cannot see the videos, at least everyone will see less ads. As admin on another wiki (AoT) where we also make use of the Crunchyroll + Wikia agreement, I'd recommend adding the episodes here as well. Actually, for a long time I wondered why I couldn't find the episodes on this wiki when I've been watching them on Video Wiki since forever. After each episode release, I'd come here to read the summary and then go to Video Wiki to watch the episode when I could have been doing both things in the same place. For the case of One Piece is even better as the episodes are uploaded the same day of the release; contrary to our case where we have them a week later. It's true that the videos are regionally restricted and have ads, but still is a plus. You have basically nothing to lose and you'd be adding a nice feature for at least the main target of your fanbase to enjoy. The One Piece episodes also seem to be available on a wider number of countries, as I live in Mexico and I don't have to use any proxy to watch them (contrary to the AoT episodes). If you don't want to affect the load time of the page (although it shouldn't make much difference), a possible option could be to embed them in separate tabs. I'm sure this feature could attract more visitors —and potential editors— to the wiki; especially if you get the most out of them, like promoting them on the social networks or organizing community viewing events in your Discord server, for example. As for the Wikia video ads, which is a completely different thing, my opinion is the opposite. They have recently begun to be implemented on some pages on our wiki, and these videos are big and intrusive, taking a lot of space at the top of the articles. To make them even worse, in most cases they have inaccuracies, they aren't hidden by ad blockers, and since they're technically ads we aren't allowed to touch them due to Wikia customization policies. Since they're part of the Wiki Modernization project, they'll probably be implemented here anyway whether you want it or not, so I'd suggest to at least collaborate with Wikia when the moment arrives in making or at least reviewing the scripts of the videos to make sure that they don't have inaccuracies or go against your wiki policies and standards.--Manuel de la Fuente (talk) 03:59, May 5, 2017 (UTC) ^This guy summed it up nicely and as a Canadian I don't have trouble seeing the videos either. Just because you may not be able to see it doesn't mean everyone else should be barred from seeing it as well. The target audience of this wiki are Americans after all hence which is why the manual of style uses American English over British English, not to mention Wikia is an American company to begin with HiddenAssassinxxXX (talk) 18:23, May 5, 2017 (UTC) Target audience may be North Americans, but quite a lot of them aren't. Anything region locked makes the whole thing pointless for a wide range of visitors. 16:39, May 8, 2017 (UTC) It's irrelevant for them which make the argument "since it's pointless to the minor target audience, then let's not add the videos even though they will benefit the main target audience" more absurd. It's like saying "you should not get a cookie because I won't have one". Why? I won't have a cookie regardless. I can't think of any harm of adding videos, but I'm not so sure about this. Have ppl asked for this? Do ppl look up wikis for anime... For me there are so many pages that have anime but at the same time it's something that could be tested. I was reading some comments and it seems not everyone will be able to watch the videos, it will be more likely US, and just by a feeling most of our users are not from that area. So idk a bit mixed.-- 17:41,5/8/2017 17:41, May 8, 2017 (UTC) Might be good to know that in the end, we might have video's forced down our throat by Wikia whether we like it or not with the new Modernization project. Therefore we'll need to discuss how we want to deal with those, but that's something for a different forum. About the episodes? I say just do it. If it all goes flop, we'll just discuss it again. That said, attractiveness to North American viewers is something I find highly worthy. We could always use more proficiently English speaking users. 18:11, May 8, 2017 (UTC) ^What he said. Also Attack on Titan Wiki implemented the concept quite well. That's also a popular series with a wide international audience. Take note of the tabber they use http://attackontitan.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Titan_(Episode) 18:19, May 8, 2017 (UTC) The videos about the wiki modernization project are outside the content and are managed by Fandom, you can think them as giant spotlights made by them. The videos we are talking about here are simple files managed by us (beside the video itself, which is hosted by an external source) which we will add inside the content.